In this episode of the Racing Insiders Podcast, Kate and Steve discuss thermostats, gear oil, and scented fuel. They also discuss all the rain we've had, cancelled races this past weekend, Steve not dropping an F bomb in the first 10 minutes of the show, bad beer, Steve's non-stop allergies, race fuel smells, distributors, and more! 

How much oil do you add to the 525? (7:25)

It's going to vary a little bit - like in the system that we sell. So on our 525s, we have a remote mount. I mean, they all need remote mount oil filters, but ours actually attaches to the block. So the lines themselves are less than a foot long each. And the way we attach that, basically, you're running a course in the system. So it's basically eight quarts. Now, if you've got your remote oil filter, like three feet from the engine, then obviously it's going to continue to take more oil. But the correct way to actually check the oil level is once the engines up to temperature, operating, all that stuff with the engine running, you want to make sure that that oil level is just below the site plug. 

The 411 ring and pinion versus the 486. Steve said the 411 is better to run than the other. And if if you could explain exactly what you have found in testing and how this really works, that would be great. I have already started getting parts around to change mine. But there is other information on the internet from a quick change rear end provider saying it does not matter. I submitted a video for you to look at. (8:49)

Actually, the video is actually about 8 inch ring versus 10 inch ring gear. It wasn't about you know anything other than that. So from my again, this is my experience. This is my testing, this is what I've seen this. I mean, it's not going to be anybody else's information other than my own. So ,what I've seen in this scenario is you know, I watched the video I did. So you know, you actually sent them to me earlier today. And what I've seen is and I'm not gonna name the manufacturer, but what I've seen is the only thing that they sell is 10 inch ring gears. And I can tell you for 1,000% fact that in our dyno testing chassis dyno testing actual real world stuff, that the eight inch performs better overall horsepower numbers is the same overall torque numbers are the same, but the rate of acceleration is completely different.

If you were talking about a super engine and you've got, you know, 800 or 900 horsepower, it really probably wouldn't matter because you can always overcompensate with more horsepower, but when we're in a low horsepower application, that you know, we're we're looking to cross every T, dot every i, and find every single advantage that we can. I think in that video they talked about with a 10 inch ring gear almost like there was more surface area rotating, that it would be less apt to heat up. If I was running like super late model, I would have a 10 inch ringer. But we're talking about crates. Because the impact load is not nearly what it is as like a like a super. So obviously, with an eight inch ring, you're gonna have less parasitic drag then you are with a 10 inch ring gear.

Would a thermostat like the Stewart with a bypass accomplish similar to the Art's System, but maybe a less elegant solution? (18:37)

So my customers who cannot afford the Art's setup, then that's normally what I would recommend is a Stewart setup, or the Stewart thermostat. No, it does not accomplish the same thing. But it's going to be better than just running a standard thermostat. The biggest difference between this setup versus just a regular thermostat is it's not just a thermostat, but it's also a regulator, and that it's regulating the water temperature. And that way you're recirculating that water, that way your water pump doesn't cavitate. The other big thing is you don't get a big hot, cold shock, because the other thermostats will just block off the water. So it's stuck in the engine. But once you get that flow going through there, still all of that cold water that's in the radiator, and now that's gonna go into the engine. And, you end up with a little bit of a flash of a shock. So that's, that's where the regulating goes. Because we're able to like kind of recirculate and that way the the temperature can flow through the water, rather than just being, you know, a stop and go situation.

Race fan vs GM Steel Four Blade? On the Race Fan website, it shows a chart where the three blade moves more air than the GM four blade. If the three blade moves more air, that means it takes more energy to move more air. If Steve could explain the design of the fan, how the design of the fan helps the engine in racing applications, that would be very helpful to racers. I figured the weight alone may make up for it. (22:20)

It doesn't take more energy, it takes less. The reason being is because you have air flowing through three blades rather than air flowing through four blades. In other words, let's say you've got a four blade fan spinning at 7000 rpm. And you've got a three blade fan spinning at 7000 RPM, which one is going to let more air through the blades. Right? So in other words, once you get too many blades, you're almost blocking off the air from flowing through those blades. And in order to pull air you have to have air flowing through the blades.

The weight difference in these fans isn't tremendous. But the big difference is where the weight is. So on a Race Fan, we have the center section that is you know, predominantly most of the weight of of the entire race fan. If I'm wearing a 10 pound backpack on my on my body. I mean I can swing my arms it's no problem. If I've got now five pound sandbags in each of my hands and then try to swing my swing my arms. It it takes a lot more effort in order to swing that because this just the blades weigh hardly anything. 

And this is especially rings true if you got a shroud. So if you've got a fan shroud, I mean you're talking like blades that wide and you got four of them. Versus you got blades that wide and you got three of them. Which one allows more air to go through those blades unimpeded. Right. So, doing that, yes, you're going to flow more air through that radiator automatically.

Our limited rules state automotive gas with race gas blend only. What is the best race gas and automotive gas to run/what blend? (26:11)

That's some vague rules because I was gonna say if it's gonna be like automotive gas will be 85 something. What is an automotive gas? I mean, I guess that you put into automotives. I mean, methanol is an automotive gas. It's used in some stuff. What kind of what kind of limited? It's a limited class. Yeah, that is so vague. I mean, automotive gas is anything? I can run your car off carburetor cleaner. If I was standing there over the top of the carburetor. Like, spraying. I don't recommend doing that. But know that's so vague. It's ridiculous. I want to I wonder if it was like purposely written vague. Just so it allows everything? I mean, maybe you're trying to keep out like oxygenated fuels or something?

Ok, so he says "does say no R85 or methanol also". Well, then CHP is legal. That's amount automotive gas. I don't know why they'd want people blending fuel. It's like, Appetite for Destruction right there.

Why would a scented fuel additive bubblegum be considered illegal? We all have to agree, the E85 smells like ass! (29:17)

Well, unfortunately, a lot of these theories have gotten gotten to the point where, you know, it's like the tire testing thing. To me. It's complete total bullshit. I mean, really it's because it changes the changes the composition of whatever fuel that is deemed to be legal and whatever series that you're on. I mean, back in back in the day, we actually used the bubble gum stuff, in our concoction My brother came up with it just to hide what it was, and at the time, it wasn't illegal, because we didn't have any this bullshit fuel testing crap. You just didn't want people to know what you're running. So basically, how it works now is they have each series probably has, some shitty lab that they're using. And, you know, the manufacturers have to submit their base sample or whatever. And if it's got anything else in it, then you're automatically out. But it's like dead obvious, on 85 It's dead obvious what the hell you're running against. I mean, you know, when you lift off the gas, is that a blue flame or a yellow flame? So that should be obvious. Everybody. Know, yellow flame is 85. If it's got a blue flame in it, bitch has got methanol in it.

If you are mandating a fuel for a 602, what would be your first economical choice other than fuel from the corner store? (32:16)

Honestly, most manufacturers that I know of usually make a fuel that is like anywhere from between 98-100 octane. And usually it's pretty economical. Because not not a lot of you know, other people run it right now.

Steve, how do you guys like the new Hoosiers on your son's car? I'm seeing more guys local try American racers.

We actually tested back to back, maybe three weeks ago, a month ago on the American racer stuff versus the Hoosier stuff. He was actually better on the American racers believe it or not. I mean that now this is one track and one test so that doesn't account for much. But he was actually better on the American racers -no change in the car- once we got as fast as we could possibly get on the American racers. We put the Hoosiers on and he slowed down a 10th. Because what our conclusion was - it was the sidewall difference. Oh, and it's like the car went to being dead nuts. Perfect. How he liked it, how he was comfortable to oh, now it's laying on the right rear a little bit more in the corner. Little squishier is what I'm getting at. Yeah. So we kind of attribute it to a sidewall difference.

What would be your distributor recommendations for a 602 versus a 604? (35:16)

Both the same. You know, if you'd asked me what, two years ago, it would have been the FAST distributor. But now unfortunately, because I don't know what the hell's happened with them. I mean, it's another company now, I think. So I mean, as much as I I'm not saying I hate to say it, because I've used this ship for years. I mean, MSD is about your only way to go. So MSD billet distributor locked out. I prefer billet over HEI. HEI is 1970's technology at best. Can you trigger an HEI with an MSD box? Sure. But most series that allow HEI don't allow that. My choice would be a billet distributor with an MSD box. 

So, a 602 has a cast iron cam, a 604 has a steel cam. So both engines will run off a melanized gear. So melanized distributor here with no problem. But you cannot put a cast iron gear on a steel distributor without ruining everything. And you cannot put a bronze gear on a cast iron cam without ruining everything. So the melanized generally, it works on both. But normally, you know, I'll recommend a melanized gear that way you can't screw it up, basically.

What is the high side engine temp when running methanol using a 180 degree thermostat? (37:57)

To me, there's no high side temp, so long as you're not pushing water out of the system. Once you start pushing water out of your coolant system, then that water is replaced with steam. And then that's where you start to mess stuff up basically.

Bought 650 Willy's carb for my 602, had 67 jets in it. Is that close or do I need more jet?  (44:38)

That'd be a great question for Willie, but I doubt it. I doubt it. Because odds are he's probably at a higher altitude than they are. But I would certainly talk to Willy. I mean, call Willy on the phone. Because you know, most of what we're doing nowadays, carburetor wise, whether it's us or Willy's, or David Smith, or whoever else, we're doing everything with the air bleeds and emulsion leads. So jets nowadays don't mean a whole lot. 

What RPM range does the 602 start to really make power? (45:42)

3300 to about 5200, and then they start falling on their face. It's a very low RPM deal. And one common mistake a lot of people make is, is they try to turn them too much. And then as they're turning them too much, you know, you're out of that torque band is you're coming off the corner. And that makes the car feel lazy. And it's not just a 602, it's 604 and 525 too. It's any of these crate engines, they just start tearing the shit out of stuff. Because, you know, a lot of guys are used to just hearing that RPM sound. And they think they're going fast, but they're actually slowing themselves down.

Will these Art's setups work on an aluminum open late model? (48:25)

1,000%? They will. Yep. And if you have any questions, and anything that I would certainly call Art. He's perfectly happy to answer your calls and give you all the information you need to know on that. But yes, they will. 1,000%. he may have a slightly different suggestion than then the thermostat we're using on these. It might be slightly different. he's got plenty of them running open. I think he's got a lot of his big block modifieds up north and stuff like that.

What RPM range should you run on for 604?(50:32)

From the initial hit. So let's say 2500 rpm. Yeah, you're you're producing torque and horsepower at that point. Where it starts falling off is right around 6000.

We're running the Amsoil severe gear SAE 250. Thoughts on that gear grease? Way too thick/heavy? (54:29)

I'm not familiar with it. I can tell you that I've tested Amsoil engine oil. And it's not all that. So I would assume that the gear oil is probably about the same. Amsoil is one of those pyramid company companies. Without testing, I can't tell you. But I'm just telling you what I know about it. And I've seen it firsthand. And I've tested their oil and I had a pyramid dude come in, and like, try to sell me the oil. And we tested it and their engine oil sucks. I'm sure there are applications where it works really well. But you know, when we get into this super specialized racing environment, where, you know, these companies are so specialized in really trying to come up with the best of the best of the best, they're making a decision to be providing a product for 1% of 1% of the population. But racing oils are really kind of on their own island very much.

Would a ton of condensation on the butterflies of a carb for E85 be normal in humid environments or would that worry you about water in the cell? Shocked at how cold the intake gets. (56:59)

No, that's perfectly normal. As a matter of fact, like one of the things that you have to pay attention to, especially if you're running E85, same same thing with methanol. Let's say methanol or E85, highly oxygenated, race gas, like CHP. So what ends up happening is yes, you got water condensation on the butterflies. What that ends up ultimately doing, like, let's say you're idling around the racetrack- is it freezes. So when that freezes, it not only freezes on the butterfly, but it freezes on the idle transition slot. So if you go to take off on a restart, and you've just been idling around, then obviously you stabbed the gas and things are going to cough and go nowhere. So what we have to like drive into our people's minds who use our carburetors, engines, carburetors, whatever it is, you have to clear that thing out and get actual raw fuel running across the butterflies to clear out the idle transition slot in order for that thing to take off. And if you're not doing that, that thing's gonna be a pile of crap on restart.

Where can I find an R2C filter base for a 4412? (58:22)

I mean, I guess you could try and see if R2C is still operating. So we left that island back in 2017. And so haven't looked back ever since we couldn't discover Walker. I'm sorry I don't have an answer for that.