In this episode of the Racing Insiders Podcast, Kate welcomed NASA Technology Hall of Fame Member, Buck Parker from Daytona1. As a leader in the performance lubrication industry, Buck brings a wealth of knowledge in racing lubricants, technology, and performance.

This week Kate and Buck talked about Buck’s nomination to be in the NASA Technology Hall of Fame, space shuttle crawlers, how Daytona1 got into NASCAR, parasitic drag, performance lubricants, tire treatments, and Daytona1 Products. 

(Kate) I completely understand parasitic drag, but I can never seem to turn around and explain it in the same way. So, I would love to hear your explanation of parasitic drag, and how it slows down a racecar how we can eliminate parasitic drag, and it can free things up.

(Buck) Well, first off, you know, lubricants need to go in and lubricate and leave, and lubricate and leave. When they go and lubricate and leave they actually take the heat away from it. So, flow is much better than pressure. And so, you do need a certain amount of pressure, but you need a lot of flow. So, everybody's been at the auto parts store, and you've taken that little wheel and you rolled it up and down- I know I have several times - and that oil will basically track itself all the way to the top because it has stick and also has tackifiers in it, but that type of lubrication is the worst thing that can happen for a race car. For instance, if you put a coat on, you know basically you get warm. So, if you take it off, you get cool, okay? So, if we take the parasitic drag away, you will cool down a lot more. So, if you put a coat on you get warm, alright, also you don't live as well. So, if you take it off, then you can move back. So that's very similar situation in the engine and rear end, transmission, and everything. So, what you want to do is allow your oil to go in, lubricate, and leave, let it flow and not let it have sticks on it. That's what they call it. You want to defrictionate it, and that's our word by the way - and you don't want it to have friction. So, if you take this “friction” away, and allow the frictioned items to work, then everything's is going to run cooler, it's going to run smoother, and you're going to get more performance out of either the motor, transmission, rear end, power steering, it doesn't matter where it's at. 

(Kate) Talking about gear oil, is that when that when that oil will stick to itself, and then it sticks on to the surface. 

(Buck) When we, when we first started making the gear oils, you really want to see what's happening inside the rear end. So, we designed a little way that we could put a camera up in there, so we could see what was going on. And in what was amazing to me is when you could actually see the axles that go from the rear end, they're about a inch and a half around or whatever they are, they would almost double in size, because the oil that that was in there- I'm not going to say who’s oil it was, but all that was in there, would basically make that axle get almost twice as big round. So, you don't want that - that's drag, you know, so if it's sticking to that, like that, and making that get big around, you know, it's sticking to everything else. So, you really want the oil to flow, you know, to go in lubricate, and leave and to have a constant movement. So that the additive packages are what stops wear, not the viscosity. Viscosity, you know, does not stop wear, viscosity can cause you problems. So, you want just for instance, in our crate motors, we, you know, we know that there's a specific situation with a lift, you have to have a certain amount of because these are hydraulic factory lifters, they will lose some of the pumping and half power or RMS if that. And I can tell you that story because I dyno tested with Steve Hendren, and we showed all this horsepower with our with our engine treatment. So, when I said my first oil, I'm going to knock this out of the park. So, I built a 20 weight. And that we knew was just going to kill everybody. It didn't have to worry about any wear, we had it all figured out as far as the protection values and everything. So I go up with Steve and we put this in, I think he already knew I was going to fail. But we run that machine the engine, and I actually lost horsepower. And I said, how do you lose horsepower? I mean, I got the best oil the world got the best base stocks, I got the best additive package. And he says, “the lifter”. He said, “you got to keep that lifter built up”. He said because when you get the higher RPMs, that lifter will go. So, you think you know, everything that you don't, but you have to listen to these engine builders because they’re smart. And anyway, long story short, so we go back, we put that other oil back in it, and then we put our engine treatment back on it. And then we gained the horsepower that we needed. So I learned a lesson. So, what I also learned after that is that normal motor oils that are out there on the shelf, when you buy in base stocks - if you have a 30 weight, it can legally be a 34 weight or a 26 weight? Alright, so now, okay, so the guy goes and buys him some 30 Weight oil off the shelf or from somebody. And he puts it into his car. And all of a sudden, he said he's not running as good as it did. You know, he said, All right end of the race, he said, you know, my engine fell off. But the engine didn't fall off. You know, you have to understand that when that all falls off it when it gets hot, it loses some of its viscosity, it loses some of this, some of its thickness and then that that lifter won't stay up. So that's why we designed our lowest weight is a 40 weight, we have a 5w40 and a 15w40. The 5W40 is the best. We think that it is the bests oil in the world. As far as a racing standpoint goes, we've got a lot of people that are winning all the races with it. So undoubtedly, they think so too. 

(Kate) There's another important aspect of fluids and especially with oils in a racing application is temperature. And when we talk about viscosity and we look at you know, talking about your 5W40 Let's, let's talk about what those two numbers mean, first of all, because isn't the five number? Isn't that at zero degrees? Let’s talk about viscosity. And then we can go into temperatures and race cars.

(Buck) Well, for instance, is zero weight or five weight or 20 weight, the first number is for winter, not weight. So, you know, people say 5W40 it’s a 5 weight, it's not, that 5 stands for winter. So that's how it flows when it's cold, you know. But you know, that, it, what really matters is, when it's cold it’ll flow, when it's hot, it gets thicker, you know, basically. That's because the, the package that is in it allows it to, when it goes through, it's curved to get thicker. And so, you want it to flow. A lot of people like to run 20W50. You don't want a 20 weight at 0 degrees, or 30 degrees, you know, because my oil will be at the top of the engine working when that one is still thinking about getting through the pump. And so people need to understand that now that's in the wintertime. And that's when it's cold. Now, when it is hot that that 20W50 will flow. I mean it when it's cold, it doesn't matter what that first number is, as long as your top number is where you want at a certain temperature, like our PTRO or our other oils. So how many crate engines are out there? And how many of them run different fuels? There's a lot of them that that never see over 180 degrees. I was with an engine builder. This was several years back that and he was telling me that they take the temperature gauge clean out of the car because he didn't want his people, his racer, the racecar driver to see it because he's running 300 plus degrees. And then I realized the need for the PTRO, at that point. Tuned Racing Oil. So you if you're running, say you're running an engine that's running methanol, and you never see over 180 degrees, I'd recommend and a lot of times you'll wash down the cylinder walls and it'll contaminate the oil depending on how your setting is and the oil will get milky. Well, I recommend using our 15W40, because we put an additive package in order to keep that into a suspension to work that the ethanol itself won't separate and an exit to cause all the corrosion. So, because when you run the methanol and ethanol, and you shut it off, if you don't have a system to work, it's put into an emulsion and separate, they will separate and then that methanol will cause corrosion inside your motor. So that's the last thing that you want. 

(Kate) I do want to go into specifics about engine temperatures, though, because I think when you were building your oils, you also really, you know, there was a big question in the first place, whether you're going to do oil, you know, we we've talked about it for years and years. And you know, because you said, Hey, there's a lot of good oils out there. But then you dug deeper. And when you saw what was happening to these oils at higher temperatures, sure some guys are only getting 180 degrees. I think we also talked about there are some engines out there where the engine oil can be 300 degrees, and then what's happening to those oils at 300 degrees and which ones really will stand up. We talked about falling off.

(Buck) People need to understand that there's people that say, “well I use a synthetic”. Well, that's not good enough because there's different synthetics there's a lot of different synthetics and in what we were finding that the additive packages that they use I mean they will start if you don't use the right additive package and 90% of them that are out there that are bought from several companies that are just added to the base stock and we make our engine treatment we make them in house so They're specifically designed for the application. But your normal additive package will start deteriorating and about 240 to 250, to 60. And, and about 270, they really start to deteriorate. So, if you don't have the right package, when the additive starts to deteriorate, and then oil starts deteriorating. But basically, that's what makes the oil work. So, it starts deteriorating. And then you'll have a fall off on it, you'll have wear, you have all kinds of things that go wrong. And then so when we were doing this, you know, and going back to my buddy, that's the engine builder, he said, there's a need for an oil that will handle 300 degrees. And so that got me thinking that says, you know, but you know, I'm not going to make a me too type product. I mean, that's just, that's not what we did. We're, you know, we're not a huge company, we're a boutique specialty company, our goal is to be the best company and make the best products that we can possibly make in the world. And now we're not cheap. But we're not the most expensive, either, but our products, I think, will stand up to anybody else in the world, and maybe a whole lot better than most. So, and I'm not saying that bragging. And that's just the way I feel.

You know, how many times has a racer told you “my car fell off at the end of the race”? You know, we know tires fall off, we know, there are certain things fall off, but we also know that the motor oil falls off. So if we can take that part of the equation out where they don't have to worry about the motor oil. And, so we fix that problem. Yes, yes, that's it. If you want a great oil, you know, we have two, actually we have four superior oils- but at some point, we do have a 20W50 in our line now - only because I don't recommend it, but people want it. And you have to give people what they want. But we make a great 20W50. But if you're going to tell me what do I need to go racing with? It's going to be my 5W40 most of the time.

(Kate) You mentioned tires. And I know this is a little bit controversial, depending on what area of the country is listening to this show. But in some areas, you found an area with your tire treatments. And it really, it kind of circles back to what we first talked about with like the Space Shuttle Program and finding a solution that was a biodegradable solution to the space shuttle program. Well, you've taken those same parameters, and rather than just yet another tire treatment, that is going to break down tires, kill the environment, kill animals, you know, harm small children, all of that. You've taken the biodegradable aspect and brought it over to tire treatment. And now tell us about the series in the Midwest, and how that's working with tires and your tire treatments to talk all about that series because I think it's fascinating.

(Buck) Years and years ago, probably 7-8 years ago - I met a friend that’s a racer. He says, you know, can you make a tire treatment that doesn't burn your eyes and stink like crazy and cost a fortune. So, he told me, he said, well some of the stuff that I use, you can’t even get into a trailer. And I hadn't been around these products at all at that point in time. So, we started looking into it. And it was sort of intrigued me that that the technology was so antiquated, and I mean, people were still using creosote and that has been banned for a long time, but they'll figure out a way to find it and use it. So we started looking into it and we were able to develop a couple of products that really really work. We have Grip Bite Aqua, Grip Bite Green, Black, and Blue. That for specific applications really do the job. And there's a need for the products out there, there's a lot of people can't afford to buy new tires every weekend. And so once we once we started making the products and we got into it a little bit more, and got involved with a with a with a group out in the Midwest, and it just sort of grew into a situation now that we've hit we're trying to help build this, this series, it's called the Daytona1 Gen X Late Model Series. And they were already working with used tires, they already knew that the need for a racer to be able to go out there and race affordable. And so they designed the late model that uses a 602 top engine, steel bodied shocks, with no valves or anything, no weight adjustment. And you have to use takeoffs - used tires, and they've got there's all kinds of rules you got to go through it can have so much depth in you can still sipe them and cut them and treat them and everything do whatever you want to, to re-tire. But we found that by using the products that we make, we can actually allow that tire to come back to almost new. I mean, they're running within a second as the big boys with new tires, you know, so it's, uh, it's, it's pretty cool. So, we're excited about trying to help the series grow, we would love to see if we can get two or three racetracks down in the south, you know, in two or three other places that might embrace this idealism. But the guys up there, it seems like it's going to be the fastest growing series in in the Midwest, because people can actually afford to go racing, they don't have to buy new tires every weekend, and so, for $20,000-$25,000, they can feel a late model that really goes fast and really looks great. And the tires work. 

(Kate) I think the technology that you've brought to tire treatments, like you mentioned, it was very antiquated, you know, whether it's creosote or Tallinn or kerosene, you know, those other ones, I would actually, when I hear some of those chemicals, I kind of think about it, like the idea of marinating meat, you know, the whole idea of marinating is to really kind of break up the cell structure. And that releases the flavor, like when you're talking about meats and marinating or salt and things like that. And I would think that some of those really harsh chemicals, what they're doing is they're breaking down the tire making it soft and mushy, because they're breaking it down. And that would make it - I think I know a lot of these series, they say that they ban tire treatments, because either dangerous and you know whether it's harsh chemicals, or you're damaging the tire, and you're going to increase the risk of blowouts. Now your tire treatments aren't like that at all. I always feel like the way I describe them to people are they think about having like a really old leather seat where it’s almost ready to crack. But you put a wonderful leather conditioner on it. And it's like it brings it back to life and makes it soft and supple. You're not adding anything. You're not changing that it's leather. You're just putting it back in. But maybe you can explain that better.

(Buck) Yeah, well one thing that's really cool about the products number one, they are totally biodegradable, non toxic. They, they don't hurt you, they don't smell. And in, you know, some of these products that are out there. You know, you don't want to get a young child or a pregnant woman next to them because it could cause damage. And I'm not joking when I'm saying you're not really could you know. One of the one of the key things that we've learned but by working with a series that in the Midwest for so long is the fact that you know, when you have a caution, these boys race hard and the tires get real hot. And one of the things that they used to have a problem with is that once they caution and then cooled down, the tires would glaze over. And when they glazed over, they're done. They're, they're done, they might get back, you know, to raise some 10 laps. But if the race is over by then - what our products, we've been fortunate to find out that our products don't glaze over. All my guys say, But when, when the green flag goes up, I can go in. I've gotten more guys that have said that to me, my tires don't glaze over anymore.

You have to understand what's in the tire from the factory is a mold release in that and that gets embedded in the tire. And the mold release basically is nothing but wax. So depending on who the fellow is that sprayed in that mold that day, is impinging on the tires and stuff. Every process is different. But you know, they could have more than a certain area less than a certain area, and it gets beat into the tire and it stays on the tire until you take it out. We have a means of doing that. And but that mold release, if it if it floats itself back to the top after it cools, it's hot and it cools off, then you're riding - and I don't want to say it's all the mold release because it's not because you got those chemicals. It was other chemicals in there. But you're riding on a layer of slick stuff. It's just, and so until you get it hot enough to get rid that slick stuff again, you're not going anywhere for as far as racing. So, after two or three laps, you might get hot enough to go fast again, you don't have that problem with ours. And so interesting is pretty cool. You know, it's just, you know, anybody that wants to know, I mean, you know, we're, you know, you've got a lot of information you can send them in if they don't just if they send anything and they want some information. You know, we'll forward it to, you know, just whatever you need, because I can't say enough, but I'd love to see the series. The it doesn't have to be the Gen X late model series. I just like to see the series grow. Because I feel that it will allow the younger racers to move on up. And then it a lot of times the guys that that are up in the higher classes still want to race, but they don't they don't want to spin you know, tires expensive. What are you supposed to do? Spend $1,000 For four tires? Only so you can race for $800? Like, that's just math. It's makes it hard.

We have a 2000 Chevy C3500 was 68,000 original miles. Since we have stopped racing, the truck doesn't get driven as much anymore, do you have an additive or any suggestions to keep the inside of the engine clean? Black Betty has become a garage queen!

Oh, goodness, gracious. You know, the, you know, first off, the worst thing you can do is crank the motor up and not let it run. In other words, so if you crank it up, said, “Well, I'm going to go ahead and crank it up, let it run for five minutes”, but you’re better off not starting the engine. Because what happens, it will get just hot enough. And then when it starts cooling off it’ll form moisture, and when it forms is moisture, and that's when you contaminate your oils and stuff like that. You know, we all wanted to buy that car from that lady, and only drove to church on Sundays, where she probably didn't drive but a mile and a half. And then a mile and half back- you know what I'm talking about. So that engine would be treated worse at times, because of the moisture buildup and everything, and she never changed the oil because she didn't have 3000 miles on it or 2000 then so she had end of the term, she didn't realize it but she had a lot of moisture and she had a lot of corrosion, probably building up, there's a lot of things that can go wrong. Now Black Betty, that that he's talking about, you know, it's sitting there, there is going to be some contamination from just normal temperature changes, you know. But if you will take that car out once a month, at least, and run it and make sure it gets the temperature and run it at temperature for about, you know, 30-40 minutes or an hour, that will 90% of the time take that moisture out of that motor. And you shouldn't need anything after that, most of the engineers today have a good additive package in them, that takes care of contamination. So, I'll say most, you know, we are also made for racing. That's what we do. You can put their XL1 engine treatment in there, but it's made to give you performance, you know, it's made to give you longevity, it's made to stop wear, so it will stop corrosion. And that's what it's made for. I’d recommend using one ounce per quart of our engine treatment it’s just going to help. But you still need to take that car out and drive it once a month and get it up to temperature. If people think well, I want to get it out, drive it here and drive it there. As long as you get it to temperature, that's the biggest thing you need to do. But I would recommend if you have a regular car, just use one ounce per quart.

How often should we wash tires with Grip Bite Aqua?

It really depends on how much you race, you know, but I would recommend if you go out there, and if you've run, say, a 25 or 30 lap race, after you've treated the tires, I'd recommend just going through the entire process, if you run a good race, you know, because you're not going to hurt them to clean them, you know, it's just going to put them right back and then put your green, blue, or black or whatever we're going to use only our black is very aggressive. So, I tell people when you use that the first time. The second time, make sure you use the green or the blue because I don't want you to overdo it. But the black is a strong product but I would recommend if anybody's out there, that wants to treat the tires. Use the blues, solid, solid, great product. The green and the blue are very very similar except the green will flash quicker. And I've got a lot of asphalt guys that just rave about it because they can paint the sidewall to sidewall looks better. You don't believe some of this. We get some great great people calling in. And then but in that the products work on asphalt, they work on dirt, they work on anywhere, go karts, big car, little cars, eight inch tires and drag racing tires. It's going to work, wherever it's at it just don't know where it's at. That's okay.